This is excellent. I was just telling my husband about noticing a trend among some of our friends of a vindictive demand that dads care for their kids while moms get a "well-deserved" outing with each other, but when the same group of dads all try to get a beer together, they're all late because they're not "allowed" to miss bedtime. In my mind, both parties deserve coverage while enjoying social time with friends. The fact that the sacrifice of these men is deemed less because it's typically less domestically-based is really painful to watch.
Thanks so much! Yes! My husband has literally no time to himself (like, unto that he often takes the older kids jogging with him!) and I truly wish he would let me create any for him! But he is almost never willing to give up time with our kids - playing, coaching, reading, bed timing, etc! And I’m supposed to be resentful of him that I always deal with the dishes?! Because he is [checks notes] always working overtime to provide for our family so that he can also be home for dinner and coach kids’ teams and never miss a school concert?! Annoyed? Sure! Life is often annoying! Welcome to being alive and its endemic limitations! With him??! Why…. 🤦♀️😂🤷♀️
I’m really happy you’re calling out the modern feminist bullshit. Couples will argue and be annoyed with each other. But if you have kids, unless abusive behavior is happening, then you ought to put them above your selfish whims.
Very well-written and appropriately nuanced article; I believe a lot of people would have milder outlooks on your subject if they were personally exposed to good marriages. I have always noticed a void in discussion around, essentially, 'who drives on a family trip?' and it's always seemed to me that there's a general rule; dads like to drive, moms like having dads drive, and altogether the arrangement is everyone's first preference. I'm a young man who's never been married, but it looks to me like people are busily conflating a larger version of 'who drives' with something much darker.
This is beautiful. Thank for this. I can’t get behind this notion of the housewife’s “mental load” precisely because I know for a fact that my husband’s mental load is three times the size of mine! There is so much on his shoulders. So many of the troubles in modern marriage simply boil down to self-centeredness—a refusal to step in the other’s shoes and walk around for a bit. That, and as you rightly pointed out, having no conception of what constitutes excellent character in a marriage partner.
Loved the article and the outlook on these things !
After I got married (very recently), I realized I basically had received no explicit guidance at all from my parents about the choice of a husband and the life of a wife. My parents - themselves in a successful, 30 years marriage - definitely modelled righteous behaviors and marriage, yet never explicitly shared any well defined, recurring moral framework to base my choices and behaviors on. I think it's this progressive tendency to refrain from sharing moral 'absolutisms' or 'should/ should not'. Tbh, I'd have scoffed at any attempt from my parents to share about how to find a good husband. Same on 'how to wife', I'd have thought it utterly preposterous. I now realize I actually don't know much about these things.
I made some choices that I do not regret, but they complexify our marriage : chose to date outside my culture (even my continent) and outside from my same socio-economic background. We fell immediately in love, and that was that. Risky choices tbh but we love it so far
I have found another benefit of (good) husbands to wives is the simple presence of a man to help anchor the days - someone whose very presence makes them accountable to daily tasks, someone to listen to their stories and subtly recognize all that they do so well, someone to back up the scolding of children. His daily schedule gives balance to hers, and vice versa.
So sure, that’s one way that culture is discussing gender relations. But there’s also a ton of content about trad wives. Ballerina Farm, the magazine, Evie, the pronatalism conference. There’s plenty of cultural content, glorifying, traditional gender roles. I’d say that type of content is ascendant right now.
About the only point I'd add is the gender gap looks remarkably similar from the other side. I'm a guy, and agree with this essay's central point that successful marriages split loads in ways that work for that particular couple. Too much load on either partner and the relationship founders, but what others outside the marriage think is their business.
I've never much liked dealing with finances, and while I do manage them in my current marriage, I didn't in my previous two. I do like construction and yard work and built an addition on the house I bought with the second wife, planted 24 fruit and shade trees, built three stone patios from scratch, all of which added considerably to the property's worth. The ex got that property in the divorce, a too common complaint many men have regarding our antiquated divorce settlements, which haven't changed as much as the rest of reality since Kramer versus Kramer was in the movie theaters.
Family law still favors women regarding children, and no, women don't make better parents than men on average, that's as sexist as the reverse. Some do, some don't: that's the truth about fathers as well. Some individuals are great parents, some less so and gender has little to do with it. Still family law reads like it's the 1950s and only men provide the money.
So the point is marriage is difficult work and needs both partners contributing enough both are content with their share and not resentful. Gender isn't the point, and ladies, you're about to find this out under our 21st century economy, where women, due to their higher educational attainment on average, will soon out earn us gentlemen. With money will come both power and responsibilities: have fun with that.
I'm retiring soon and won't see this personally, but my daughter will. I'm fine with it too, it'll hopefully help bring a balance between the genders. Still I'd urge each couple to do what works for them and the rest of the world's opinions be damned. If you're happy that's all that matters. Same with discontent too.
Best wishes to all in life's struggles. May you succeed, and may you support each other.
The part of the problem is that wives wouldn’t give up their mental load. For quite some time now, I’ve been persuading my wife to relax a little and give up some of those duties to me. “No, you’ll screw them up!” is always the answer. Now, I am not the most reliable and diligent person, I’ll admit that. Still, I say, maybe it would be better for me to screw up some stuff - probably - but you would relax a little? “Nope.” You can’t take responsibility from person who just doesn’t want to give it up.
There are many different lives and many different choices to make. If you have a strong constitution, can work 2,5 fulltime jobs at the same time as bringing up 4 children and doing a phd at night, statistically speaking you are the outlier of all outliers. Let’s say the top ,01 of
This is excellent. I was just telling my husband about noticing a trend among some of our friends of a vindictive demand that dads care for their kids while moms get a "well-deserved" outing with each other, but when the same group of dads all try to get a beer together, they're all late because they're not "allowed" to miss bedtime. In my mind, both parties deserve coverage while enjoying social time with friends. The fact that the sacrifice of these men is deemed less because it's typically less domestically-based is really painful to watch.
Thanks so much! Yes! My husband has literally no time to himself (like, unto that he often takes the older kids jogging with him!) and I truly wish he would let me create any for him! But he is almost never willing to give up time with our kids - playing, coaching, reading, bed timing, etc! And I’m supposed to be resentful of him that I always deal with the dishes?! Because he is [checks notes] always working overtime to provide for our family so that he can also be home for dinner and coach kids’ teams and never miss a school concert?! Annoyed? Sure! Life is often annoying! Welcome to being alive and its endemic limitations! With him??! Why…. 🤦♀️😂🤷♀️
I’m really happy you’re calling out the modern feminist bullshit. Couples will argue and be annoyed with each other. But if you have kids, unless abusive behavior is happening, then you ought to put them above your selfish whims.
Very well-written and appropriately nuanced article; I believe a lot of people would have milder outlooks on your subject if they were personally exposed to good marriages. I have always noticed a void in discussion around, essentially, 'who drives on a family trip?' and it's always seemed to me that there's a general rule; dads like to drive, moms like having dads drive, and altogether the arrangement is everyone's first preference. I'm a young man who's never been married, but it looks to me like people are busily conflating a larger version of 'who drives' with something much darker.
Thank you!! 🙏
This is beautiful. Thank for this. I can’t get behind this notion of the housewife’s “mental load” precisely because I know for a fact that my husband’s mental load is three times the size of mine! There is so much on his shoulders. So many of the troubles in modern marriage simply boil down to self-centeredness—a refusal to step in the other’s shoes and walk around for a bit. That, and as you rightly pointed out, having no conception of what constitutes excellent character in a marriage partner.
Thank you! Amen! 🙏
Loved the article and the outlook on these things !
After I got married (very recently), I realized I basically had received no explicit guidance at all from my parents about the choice of a husband and the life of a wife. My parents - themselves in a successful, 30 years marriage - definitely modelled righteous behaviors and marriage, yet never explicitly shared any well defined, recurring moral framework to base my choices and behaviors on. I think it's this progressive tendency to refrain from sharing moral 'absolutisms' or 'should/ should not'. Tbh, I'd have scoffed at any attempt from my parents to share about how to find a good husband. Same on 'how to wife', I'd have thought it utterly preposterous. I now realize I actually don't know much about these things.
I made some choices that I do not regret, but they complexify our marriage : chose to date outside my culture (even my continent) and outside from my same socio-economic background. We fell immediately in love, and that was that. Risky choices tbh but we love it so far
I have found another benefit of (good) husbands to wives is the simple presence of a man to help anchor the days - someone whose very presence makes them accountable to daily tasks, someone to listen to their stories and subtly recognize all that they do so well, someone to back up the scolding of children. His daily schedule gives balance to hers, and vice versa.
So sure, that’s one way that culture is discussing gender relations. But there’s also a ton of content about trad wives. Ballerina Farm, the magazine, Evie, the pronatalism conference. There’s plenty of cultural content, glorifying, traditional gender roles. I’d say that type of content is ascendant right now.
Agree! But that’s still outside the mainstream, I’d say. This is in it. But I am no fan of tradwifery and have written many posts to that effect :)
Wow, this was excellent. Thank you for writing!
Thank you!! 🙏
After reading this review, this dad’s primary question is if the reviewer has any daughters that my 8 year old can marry when he is old enough.
Hahah, thank you! Nope. 4 boys. 😆🤪
About the only point I'd add is the gender gap looks remarkably similar from the other side. I'm a guy, and agree with this essay's central point that successful marriages split loads in ways that work for that particular couple. Too much load on either partner and the relationship founders, but what others outside the marriage think is their business.
I've never much liked dealing with finances, and while I do manage them in my current marriage, I didn't in my previous two. I do like construction and yard work and built an addition on the house I bought with the second wife, planted 24 fruit and shade trees, built three stone patios from scratch, all of which added considerably to the property's worth. The ex got that property in the divorce, a too common complaint many men have regarding our antiquated divorce settlements, which haven't changed as much as the rest of reality since Kramer versus Kramer was in the movie theaters.
Family law still favors women regarding children, and no, women don't make better parents than men on average, that's as sexist as the reverse. Some do, some don't: that's the truth about fathers as well. Some individuals are great parents, some less so and gender has little to do with it. Still family law reads like it's the 1950s and only men provide the money.
So the point is marriage is difficult work and needs both partners contributing enough both are content with their share and not resentful. Gender isn't the point, and ladies, you're about to find this out under our 21st century economy, where women, due to their higher educational attainment on average, will soon out earn us gentlemen. With money will come both power and responsibilities: have fun with that.
I'm retiring soon and won't see this personally, but my daughter will. I'm fine with it too, it'll hopefully help bring a balance between the genders. Still I'd urge each couple to do what works for them and the rest of the world's opinions be damned. If you're happy that's all that matters. Same with discontent too.
Best wishes to all in life's struggles. May you succeed, and may you support each other.
The part of the problem is that wives wouldn’t give up their mental load. For quite some time now, I’ve been persuading my wife to relax a little and give up some of those duties to me. “No, you’ll screw them up!” is always the answer. Now, I am not the most reliable and diligent person, I’ll admit that. Still, I say, maybe it would be better for me to screw up some stuff - probably - but you would relax a little? “Nope.” You can’t take responsibility from person who just doesn’t want to give it up.
There are many different lives and many different choices to make. If you have a strong constitution, can work 2,5 fulltime jobs at the same time as bringing up 4 children and doing a phd at night, statistically speaking you are the outlier of all outliers. Let’s say the top ,01 of
Hahaha no, no, not all at once. First came the multiple jobs and the doctorate, then the 4 kids and 1 job. 😆
Wow. I must have been reading a completely different post!