I agree with a lot here (beyond the usual disagreements over the innateness of various gendered attributes.) Where I would disagree is with the implication that boys are *especially* damaged by so-called gentle parenting relative to girls. I would say, from talking to the many teachers in my life, that girls are equally damaged by this sort of parenting, but that the issues girls develop tend to be less obvious but are equally or perhaps even more malignant.
Low-performing boys do obviously disruptive things in the classroom (loudly playing videos on their phones during lessons, for example.) Low-performing girls are more likely to weaponize their (extreme) emotional fragility when facing any sort of challenge. For example, low-performing girls will do things like write, "I'm sorry Miss ___. I tried my best, but I don't know how to do anything on the test. :( :( " on an exam. Then they will turn in a blank test. When the test is returned with a low grade, they will burst into tears, sometimes threatening self-harm or suicide until comforted and offered "accommodations" on a retake of the exam.
My teacher friends note that these piteous breakdowns, where the girls say things like, "I'm so stupid. I hate myself. I'm worthless. I want to die" are essentially 100% effective at pushing terrified "gentle" parents and administrators into getting advanced "accommodations" for their daughters that essentially remove any sort of challenge or difficulty from the girls' schoolwork. Thus gentle parenting teaches girls to utilize all the worst weapons in women's emotional arsenal - passive-aggressiveness, emotional manipulation, martyr complexes, and so on- as an extremely effective means to remove any sort of challenge or difficulty from their lives.
I actually 100% agree with this. It’s just not in the scope of this essay, where I’m talking about young children and mothering boys specifically. I think that the damage to girls is mostly later and not as obvious to the casual observer, but VERY obvious to those that see it within schools.
“His mom is no doubt performing, when it comes to him, the very docility and meekness that she purports to reject as a female norm” - 🔥 yessss yes, Ive noticed this as well, in not just parenting roles but life! Really good.
Agreed. Across the board, the surest way to emphasize (whether to a 2 yo boy or anyone else) that women should be presumed strong of mind and character is for women to, um, behave as adult humans who are strong of mind and character. 😉😂
I agree, but poor moms! Damned if they don't speak authoritatively enough but then called a Karen if they do dare to raise their voices. The pressure on women these days to perform a kind of sacharine femininity is intense. Sad setback.
I am glad this piece exists and hope it gets some good traction (from a therapist, and mother to a very active curious little boy, who has had to readjust VERY fast to plenty of naive assumptions).
Love this! I will need to bookmark this for the years to come with my son. I am utterly besotted by him and I know I need to work on my authority as we navigate the toddler years 😂
And you got this! You just have to remember that there is no free lunch. The options are: Get him in line at 2 and be able to enjoy him with way less effort at 7, have an out of control 7 yo, or have to do remedial authority of a much more significant kind at 7 that will actually potentially damage your relationship with him (at 2, it will not!) And obvs this applies more the more “typical boy” your boy is. My first 2 were (are!) each boy prototypes, though different ones. The 3rd one I probably could get away with much gentler parenting; he’s self-aware (unlike #1) and not particularly aggressive as boys go (unlike #2). #4 appears to be like #2 — so wish me luck too!
Thank you!!! Seriously. All I can say is thank you. But also, how come the boy dads are letting this go on, why aren't they stepping up to the plate? I do see a lot of boy moms who are just way too gentle IMO (and they may regret it when he's a teenager and telling her to eff off to her face but that's another story), but I also must think that this must be a natural tendency for moms, who are just so in love with those baby moms? And if so, why didn't moms do this in the past? I have to guess that they wanted to buy the dads out their foot down. If not, then moms must have changed, and why would that be?
Thank you! So, I think that there are a few things going on: 1) Feminism and antifeminism both infantilize women. The former turns them into men’s victims, the latter into men’s angels. It’s hard for these victims and angels to exert directive authority over those men. When it was assumed that women were just adults, they acted like adults vis-a-vis children. 2) People are having fewer kids later. More kids sooner means you don’t have time to inclination for so much coddling. 3) Dads in some cases have been scared just like moms into thinking the “experts” (ie, predominantly female educational and therapeutic establishment) are right about how to raise sons. In other cases, they think they’ll get a handle on their 12 yo and the 2 yo is just a baby. Here’s the problem with that: At 12, Dad is going to have to be VERY harsh, and there is no social support or wider male context for that, and it will damage his relationship with the boy at exactly the moment that relationship needs to be growing stronger, especially because today there are not 10 uncles and brothers around to dilute it. This is why it’s important to get males in line early.
Fascinating. You really need to write more about this. I have witnessed some of the bad outcomes from this and it really is horrifying. Last year a family friend was visiting with her sons and we witnessed her 13 year old son call his mom a c*nt right to her face, I could not believe it, and yes this of course then lead to tears and ample drama. Years earlier, when he was still a little boy, we had watched her NEVER telling him no and doing the whole options and choices and directing him gently away thing, and it had seemed weird to us but who were we to judge. Well, when all of a sudden he's a tall, voice cracking, acne and puberty in full effect teen overnight full of angst and hormones, it's really not okay. You seem to get it, keep up the good work!
Aww thanks!! Yeah, it’s really bad to let things slide when little. You actually want to go 100% the other way. All the order and strictness up front so that as they get older you can loosen some! No different than a puppy, TBH! I wrote about exactly that at real clear books in reviewing a book on boymomming by someone that disagrees: https://www.realclearbooks.com/2024/08/13/the_well-trained_boy_1051228.html. This piece talks about why people, especially women, have their heads screwed on so wrong about this, even when they 100% mean well.
I so appreciate the kind words, thoughts, and support, as well as any help you can offer in my getting my words out there! (Restack, recommend, tell friends lol!) Appreciate the thoughtful and kind engagement so much!
Lol! We have a puppy, and a four year old boy, and they are so much like peas in the pod (he’s our fourth and has probably been the most difficult as a toddler). But the training process (for toddler boys — not older), is so similar. Give them an inch, they take a mile. And if you let the “cute” misbehavior go when they are very small it becomes nightmare bad habits very soon
Not sure I agree that feminism means women don't feel they can exert directive authority over men. Ime the most gentle mothers talk to their husbands with almost shocking levels of contempt and aggression as the women are the ones who have read everything about gentle parenting and are constantly exasperated that their husbands don't get with the programme. I'm amazed at how many men seem to just take this rather than stepping in when said strategy is a) clearly not working and b) not at all modelled in the grownups' relationship.
Oh my God. I totally would have taken the kid aside a little later and read him the riot act if mum and dad weren’t going to. Ideally dad should take him aside and read the riot act. “If you ever speak to MY WIFE like that again, I will…”
My baby brother at age 5 told my mum to f*** off and he got three simultaneous head smacks by me and my brothers along with “dont ever speak to your mother like that again. MUM, are you just going to take that??”
She smiled and informed us that she thought he’d had sufficient disciplinary action. He never did it again.
This is EXACTLY what drives me nuts about gentle parenting boys. You are actually teaching boys to be selfish jerks and to expect women to yield to their every whim. Do you know what happens to young men who hit puberty having never heard a real “no” in their life? They lose their mind on the surging testosterone and guess what, the police have to do it for you. Dont get to that point.
Yup. I remember looking at my husband and I could tell he was trying to control himself from throwing the kids across the room lol. But you can't interfere or say anything to someone else's kid. I think he did say something like "never speak to your mother that way" or something, but if the parents themselves don't do anything, what can you do? My recollection is that she just cried.
Oh my God. I totally would have taken the kid aside a little later and read him the riot act if mum and dad weren’t going to. Ideally dad should take him aside and read the riot act. “If you ever speak to MY WIFE like that again, I will…”
My baby brother at age 5 told my mum to f*** off and he got three simultaneous head smacks by me and my brothers along with “dont ever speak to your mother like that again. MUM, are you just going to take that??”
She smiled and informed us that she thought he’d had sufficient disciplinary action. He never did it again.
This is EXACTLY what drives me nuts about gentle parenting boys. You are actually teaching boys to be selfish jerks and to expect women to yield to their every whim. Do you know what happens to young men who hit puberty having never heard a real “no” in their life? They lose their mind on the surging testosterone and guess what, the police have to do it for you. Dont get to that point.
Wow!! Totally needed this as my son is 2 and 3 months. I have had to be very stern with him the last few days and I was worried about causing harm, but am comforted by what you said that at age 2 it will not damage our relationship and will save a lot of trouble down the line. This is something I think about a lot as I raise him mostly on my own, so establishing authority even more important given his dad is largely absent.
You got this, Mom! You’re the boss! My 2nd of 4 is now 8. At 2, he spent an hour plus of most days in time out, screaming and kicking and going crazy. He’s very strong willed. We never gave him a millimeter of an inch. Today, he’s a delight. Still strong willed! Still has his moments! Which is good; we’re not raising robots! But he’s loving and well-trained and capable of managing himself because the wiring came young and thorough. Read more: https://www.realclearbooks.com/articles/2024/08/13/the_well-trained_boy_1051112.html
I'm a mom of 4 boys and 2 girls (ranging from almost 13 to 8 months). When my oldest was a toddler and I was 23, I heard a talk from one of my church leaders named D. Todd Christofferson called "The Moral Force of Women" that has influenced how I interact with my kids and with my community. Kids benefit so much from authoritative (not authoritarian) parenting.
Over the past 5 years, I've followed Dr. Becky Kennedy and really appreciate her model of sturdy parenting. I know people like to lump her work in with gentle parenting, but her scripts have been very helpful for me in enforcing boundaries while staying warm hearted and calm with my kids.
Awww thank you so much!! So, a lot of the people that write parenting books are writing the kind of progressive hooey I’m arguing against here. I would recommend checking out Dr. Leonard Sax; he’s more old-school (maybe even more than I am, I’d say, as kids get older…then again, my oldest is only 10, so we’ll see!) Also check out Jeff Nelligan. He’s got 3 grown boys and wrote a great book. As for 10 months: In my experience, this is when “no” begins. He will react badly! That’s OK. Eventually, he’ll listen. My youngest (13 months) does NOT like to be told no at all…he cries…and he’s starting to listen more consistently. But “no” is about it right now. More complex stuff (“not so hard”) is stuff you can say, but it won’t “take” til more like 18 months in my experience (which you can take with a grain of salt as it’s an N of only 4 haha).
I second all of this and add that you are going to have to get physical with boys at first. Not smacking physical but physically move him away, take things away, remove him, hold and restrain. Eventually you’ll be able to use just your voice, but when initially disciplining (ie teaching) the words close association with an action makes the comprehension much faster. Also, (which I’m working on) is to do it with minimal drama on your part. If he’s got hold of something he shouldn’t, tell him, “not for babies” and take it straight away. Let him fuss for a moment while you put it away in its place and then return with free and distracting physical attention and affection. Attach to the child but detach from the drama.
On the collary, play physically harder with him. Make sure you, dad, uncles, older teens etc, throw him around, play baby wrestling, tickle, chase etc. with him. Just get him moving and using his body, especially when there’s negative emotion. Also, cuddle, kiss and be freely physically affectionate after any negative interaction. I’ve got an eight month old boy after three daughters and he’s already crawling and he’s way more kinetically oriented than the girls were at this age.
I agree with a lot here (beyond the usual disagreements over the innateness of various gendered attributes.) Where I would disagree is with the implication that boys are *especially* damaged by so-called gentle parenting relative to girls. I would say, from talking to the many teachers in my life, that girls are equally damaged by this sort of parenting, but that the issues girls develop tend to be less obvious but are equally or perhaps even more malignant.
Low-performing boys do obviously disruptive things in the classroom (loudly playing videos on their phones during lessons, for example.) Low-performing girls are more likely to weaponize their (extreme) emotional fragility when facing any sort of challenge. For example, low-performing girls will do things like write, "I'm sorry Miss ___. I tried my best, but I don't know how to do anything on the test. :( :( " on an exam. Then they will turn in a blank test. When the test is returned with a low grade, they will burst into tears, sometimes threatening self-harm or suicide until comforted and offered "accommodations" on a retake of the exam.
My teacher friends note that these piteous breakdowns, where the girls say things like, "I'm so stupid. I hate myself. I'm worthless. I want to die" are essentially 100% effective at pushing terrified "gentle" parents and administrators into getting advanced "accommodations" for their daughters that essentially remove any sort of challenge or difficulty from the girls' schoolwork. Thus gentle parenting teaches girls to utilize all the worst weapons in women's emotional arsenal - passive-aggressiveness, emotional manipulation, martyr complexes, and so on- as an extremely effective means to remove any sort of challenge or difficulty from their lives.
I actually 100% agree with this. It’s just not in the scope of this essay, where I’m talking about young children and mothering boys specifically. I think that the damage to girls is mostly later and not as obvious to the casual observer, but VERY obvious to those that see it within schools.
“His mom is no doubt performing, when it comes to him, the very docility and meekness that she purports to reject as a female norm” - 🔥 yessss yes, Ive noticed this as well, in not just parenting roles but life! Really good.
Thank you!! 🙏
Agreed. Across the board, the surest way to emphasize (whether to a 2 yo boy or anyone else) that women should be presumed strong of mind and character is for women to, um, behave as adult humans who are strong of mind and character. 😉😂
I agree, but poor moms! Damned if they don't speak authoritatively enough but then called a Karen if they do dare to raise their voices. The pressure on women these days to perform a kind of sacharine femininity is intense. Sad setback.
Ha! Yes! And then to pretend it’s progressive and empowered to let a 3 year old walk all over you. 🫠
I am glad this piece exists and hope it gets some good traction (from a therapist, and mother to a very active curious little boy, who has had to readjust VERY fast to plenty of naive assumptions).
Thank you! 🙏
Love this! I will need to bookmark this for the years to come with my son. I am utterly besotted by him and I know I need to work on my authority as we navigate the toddler years 😂
Thank you! 🙏
And you got this! You just have to remember that there is no free lunch. The options are: Get him in line at 2 and be able to enjoy him with way less effort at 7, have an out of control 7 yo, or have to do remedial authority of a much more significant kind at 7 that will actually potentially damage your relationship with him (at 2, it will not!) And obvs this applies more the more “typical boy” your boy is. My first 2 were (are!) each boy prototypes, though different ones. The 3rd one I probably could get away with much gentler parenting; he’s self-aware (unlike #1) and not particularly aggressive as boys go (unlike #2). #4 appears to be like #2 — so wish me luck too!
Thank you!!! Seriously. All I can say is thank you. But also, how come the boy dads are letting this go on, why aren't they stepping up to the plate? I do see a lot of boy moms who are just way too gentle IMO (and they may regret it when he's a teenager and telling her to eff off to her face but that's another story), but I also must think that this must be a natural tendency for moms, who are just so in love with those baby moms? And if so, why didn't moms do this in the past? I have to guess that they wanted to buy the dads out their foot down. If not, then moms must have changed, and why would that be?
Thank you! So, I think that there are a few things going on: 1) Feminism and antifeminism both infantilize women. The former turns them into men’s victims, the latter into men’s angels. It’s hard for these victims and angels to exert directive authority over those men. When it was assumed that women were just adults, they acted like adults vis-a-vis children. 2) People are having fewer kids later. More kids sooner means you don’t have time to inclination for so much coddling. 3) Dads in some cases have been scared just like moms into thinking the “experts” (ie, predominantly female educational and therapeutic establishment) are right about how to raise sons. In other cases, they think they’ll get a handle on their 12 yo and the 2 yo is just a baby. Here’s the problem with that: At 12, Dad is going to have to be VERY harsh, and there is no social support or wider male context for that, and it will damage his relationship with the boy at exactly the moment that relationship needs to be growing stronger, especially because today there are not 10 uncles and brothers around to dilute it. This is why it’s important to get males in line early.
Fascinating. You really need to write more about this. I have witnessed some of the bad outcomes from this and it really is horrifying. Last year a family friend was visiting with her sons and we witnessed her 13 year old son call his mom a c*nt right to her face, I could not believe it, and yes this of course then lead to tears and ample drama. Years earlier, when he was still a little boy, we had watched her NEVER telling him no and doing the whole options and choices and directing him gently away thing, and it had seemed weird to us but who were we to judge. Well, when all of a sudden he's a tall, voice cracking, acne and puberty in full effect teen overnight full of angst and hormones, it's really not okay. You seem to get it, keep up the good work!
Aww thanks!! Yeah, it’s really bad to let things slide when little. You actually want to go 100% the other way. All the order and strictness up front so that as they get older you can loosen some! No different than a puppy, TBH! I wrote about exactly that at real clear books in reviewing a book on boymomming by someone that disagrees: https://www.realclearbooks.com/2024/08/13/the_well-trained_boy_1051228.html. This piece talks about why people, especially women, have their heads screwed on so wrong about this, even when they 100% mean well.
I so appreciate the kind words, thoughts, and support, as well as any help you can offer in my getting my words out there! (Restack, recommend, tell friends lol!) Appreciate the thoughtful and kind engagement so much!
Lol! We have a puppy, and a four year old boy, and they are so much like peas in the pod (he’s our fourth and has probably been the most difficult as a toddler). But the training process (for toddler boys — not older), is so similar. Give them an inch, they take a mile. And if you let the “cute” misbehavior go when they are very small it becomes nightmare bad habits very soon
Not sure I agree that feminism means women don't feel they can exert directive authority over men. Ime the most gentle mothers talk to their husbands with almost shocking levels of contempt and aggression as the women are the ones who have read everything about gentle parenting and are constantly exasperated that their husbands don't get with the programme. I'm amazed at how many men seem to just take this rather than stepping in when said strategy is a) clearly not working and b) not at all modelled in the grownups' relationship.
Oh my God. I totally would have taken the kid aside a little later and read him the riot act if mum and dad weren’t going to. Ideally dad should take him aside and read the riot act. “If you ever speak to MY WIFE like that again, I will…”
My baby brother at age 5 told my mum to f*** off and he got three simultaneous head smacks by me and my brothers along with “dont ever speak to your mother like that again. MUM, are you just going to take that??”
She smiled and informed us that she thought he’d had sufficient disciplinary action. He never did it again.
This is EXACTLY what drives me nuts about gentle parenting boys. You are actually teaching boys to be selfish jerks and to expect women to yield to their every whim. Do you know what happens to young men who hit puberty having never heard a real “no” in their life? They lose their mind on the surging testosterone and guess what, the police have to do it for you. Dont get to that point.
I literally gasped at this. We have a twelve year old boy and I cannot IMAGINE the hellfire that would rain down if he did that.
Yup. I remember looking at my husband and I could tell he was trying to control himself from throwing the kids across the room lol. But you can't interfere or say anything to someone else's kid. I think he did say something like "never speak to your mother that way" or something, but if the parents themselves don't do anything, what can you do? My recollection is that she just cried.
Oh my God. I totally would have taken the kid aside a little later and read him the riot act if mum and dad weren’t going to. Ideally dad should take him aside and read the riot act. “If you ever speak to MY WIFE like that again, I will…”
My baby brother at age 5 told my mum to f*** off and he got three simultaneous head smacks by me and my brothers along with “dont ever speak to your mother like that again. MUM, are you just going to take that??”
She smiled and informed us that she thought he’d had sufficient disciplinary action. He never did it again.
This is EXACTLY what drives me nuts about gentle parenting boys. You are actually teaching boys to be selfish jerks and to expect women to yield to their every whim. Do you know what happens to young men who hit puberty having never heard a real “no” in their life? They lose their mind on the surging testosterone and guess what, the police have to do it for you. Dont get to that point.
Wow!! Totally needed this as my son is 2 and 3 months. I have had to be very stern with him the last few days and I was worried about causing harm, but am comforted by what you said that at age 2 it will not damage our relationship and will save a lot of trouble down the line. This is something I think about a lot as I raise him mostly on my own, so establishing authority even more important given his dad is largely absent.
You got this, Mom! You’re the boss! My 2nd of 4 is now 8. At 2, he spent an hour plus of most days in time out, screaming and kicking and going crazy. He’s very strong willed. We never gave him a millimeter of an inch. Today, he’s a delight. Still strong willed! Still has his moments! Which is good; we’re not raising robots! But he’s loving and well-trained and capable of managing himself because the wiring came young and thorough. Read more: https://www.realclearbooks.com/articles/2024/08/13/the_well-trained_boy_1051112.html
Great article--thank you for sharing. Yes, I keep reminding myself that I am a respected leader! Not pleading caregiver!
I'm a mom of 4 boys and 2 girls (ranging from almost 13 to 8 months). When my oldest was a toddler and I was 23, I heard a talk from one of my church leaders named D. Todd Christofferson called "The Moral Force of Women" that has influenced how I interact with my kids and with my community. Kids benefit so much from authoritative (not authoritarian) parenting.
Over the past 5 years, I've followed Dr. Becky Kennedy and really appreciate her model of sturdy parenting. I know people like to lump her work in with gentle parenting, but her scripts have been very helpful for me in enforcing boundaries while staying warm hearted and calm with my kids.
Awww thank you so much!! So, a lot of the people that write parenting books are writing the kind of progressive hooey I’m arguing against here. I would recommend checking out Dr. Leonard Sax; he’s more old-school (maybe even more than I am, I’d say, as kids get older…then again, my oldest is only 10, so we’ll see!) Also check out Jeff Nelligan. He’s got 3 grown boys and wrote a great book. As for 10 months: In my experience, this is when “no” begins. He will react badly! That’s OK. Eventually, he’ll listen. My youngest (13 months) does NOT like to be told no at all…he cries…and he’s starting to listen more consistently. But “no” is about it right now. More complex stuff (“not so hard”) is stuff you can say, but it won’t “take” til more like 18 months in my experience (which you can take with a grain of salt as it’s an N of only 4 haha).
I second all of this and add that you are going to have to get physical with boys at first. Not smacking physical but physically move him away, take things away, remove him, hold and restrain. Eventually you’ll be able to use just your voice, but when initially disciplining (ie teaching) the words close association with an action makes the comprehension much faster. Also, (which I’m working on) is to do it with minimal drama on your part. If he’s got hold of something he shouldn’t, tell him, “not for babies” and take it straight away. Let him fuss for a moment while you put it away in its place and then return with free and distracting physical attention and affection. Attach to the child but detach from the drama.
On the collary, play physically harder with him. Make sure you, dad, uncles, older teens etc, throw him around, play baby wrestling, tickle, chase etc. with him. Just get him moving and using his body, especially when there’s negative emotion. Also, cuddle, kiss and be freely physically affectionate after any negative interaction. I’ve got an eight month old boy after three daughters and he’s already crawling and he’s way more kinetically oriented than the girls were at this age.